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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |

Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Devil's Warrior Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 16:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Okay....... I've actually resubbed via hours for PLEX to put a PLEX on my account to be able to post on the forums. Daft that I actually have to have an active Eve account to post on the forums after years of subs but meh...... I want in on this debate.
Right. These initial balances are a step in the right direction. A baby step but it is at least in the right direction. I also want to thank CCP for making a concerted effort and listening to the player base for feed back.
Now.... Onto balancing these damn guns!
TL;DR:- Nerf Pulse tracking. Nerf AC damage and increase fitting reqs. Buff Blaster tracking and damage and reduce fitting costs. Rework Ammo to be useful for something other than Damage or Range
First off. We have to accept that the whole turret system is pretty borked. Pulses and AC's work at close range and in some cases outperform Blasters because of certain problems with hulls. Pulse lasers can track far too well at close range. AC's simply deal far too much damage. In order to fix this issue we need to give the weapons highly defined roles. To put it bluntly when talking about short range weapons only: Pulse should be the king of "Long Range" Blasters should be the king of "Short Range" AC's should be the king of "Versatility"
Basically speaking in a rock paper scissor environment: Pulse Laser boat should always try to out range it's target where it has the damage advantage. Blaster boat should always try to get within very close range where it will out damage its target (vs AC's) and speed tank it's target (vs Pulse) AC boat is always going to choose to out range vs Blaster or get under the guns vs Pulse in order to out damage it's target. These weapons systems should never ever outperform another weapons system inside of that weapon's operation zone. AC's should never out DPS Blasters at close range or out DPS Pulses at long range Pulses should never out track Blasters or AC's at close range. However, currently some of the above is true. AC's simply do too much damage overall and Pulse lasers simply track far too well at close range. Blasters (at present) can't deal enough damage or track their targets well enough within their optimal ranges. So: Nerf Pulse tracking, Nerf AC damage, Buff Blaster damage and tracking. Another problem with turrets (Hybrid & Energy) is their ammo. It's simply too unilateral in you choose either short range hi dmg or long range low dmg. This idea basically makes 6/8ths of the ammo availible to each weapon redundent as people will always choose either close range (AM/MF) or long range (Iron/Radio). The other ammo types need to be appealing to use for different hulls and situations. To that end I would change Hybrid and Energy turret ammo's into something like this:
Multifrequency (short range EM) : Remains as is except high EM low Thermal Gamma (short range hi RoF) : +50% RoF -50% Damage -50% optimal X-Ray (Short Range hi tracking) : -50% optimal +10% tracking low dmg Ultraviolet (Mid range Mid dmg) : +25% optimal Standard (V.Low Cap Use Mid Rng) : +25% optimal -50% cap use -20% damage Infra-red (Short rng Thermal) : As MF but with hi thermal damage Microwave (Sniper/Alpha low RoF) : +50% dmg -50% Rof +40% optimal +15% Cap use Radio (Extreme long range) : +60% optimal
Antimatter (Short rng Thermal) : Remains as is High Thermal low Kinetic damage Uranium (Short rng Hi RoF) : +50% Rof -50% dmg -25% optimal -25% falloff Plutonium (Short rng Hi tracking) : -25% optimal & falloff +10% tracking low dmg Thorium (Hi falloff low optimal) : +50% Falloff Lead (Hi optimal Low falloff) : +50% Optimal Iridium (Short rng Kinetic) : As AM with hi kinetic low Thermal Tungsten (Sniper/Alpha low RoF) : +50% dmg -50% Rof +40% optimal & falloff +15% Cap use Iron (Extreme long range) : +60% Optimal & fall off
The idea behind this is that certain hulls will favour RoF over damage due to hull bonuses and because these weapons are locked into EM & Thermal and Thermal & Kinetic the short range ammo at least has a bit of a choice between the two similar to projectile ammo which has a choice between all damage types. The idea behind the "Sniper/Alpha" ammo is to give these ships a realistic Sniper option as alpha is king in sniper roles. This won't however deal greater alpha than Arties but will have a decent volley damage. The idea behind Hybrids getting one ammo for falloff and one ammo for optimal is because of Gallente and Caldari having the differing bonuses but using the same weapons. **All numbers are just for example purposes and are subject to change to satisfy balancing** |

Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Devil's Warrior Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 16:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Along with the above post I would change several hulls in the game to make them competitive in their class and to start removing the tier system...... Here is an idea of the types of changes I would make to ships including the buff/nerf to weapons I posted above:
Eagle: +1 turret slot. More PG less CPU. Combine the double optimal bonus into a single +20% Hybrid optimal per HAC lvl Add +5% Hybrid RoF Bonus per Caldari cruiser lvl This would make the Eagle a very attractive Blaster or Rail boat.
Ferox: +1 turret slot. More PG less CPU This would make the Ferox a very good Blaster or Rail boat but does not outperform the Eagle
Deimos: +1 turret slot. More PG less CPU Switch one of the +5% Hybrid dmg bonuses for a +5% RoF Bonus Increase hybrid falloff bonus to 7.5% per level This would give the Deimos exceptional closerange DPS and better performance with Rails
Brutix: Remove armour rep bonus and replace with a 7.5% hybrid falloffper BC lvl bonus More PG less CPU Removing the Rep bonus for a falloff bonus clearly defines the Brutix's role and segregates it from the Myrmidon instead of just making it a lower tier BC.
Myrmidon: Increase Dronebay to 200m3. Increase Drone bandwidth to 100Mbit Remove 2x turret hardpoints but keep the hi slots as utility slots. This is to increase the Myrmidons versitility as a solo/fleet platform.
Prophecy: Replace energy turret cap usage for a 10% per lvl optimal bonus This gives the Prophecy a far better role as Fire support rather than just a tank. Useful with Pulse or Beams without stepping on the Zealots toes.
Cyclone: This ship is simply a little low on CPU. A little more CPU would push this already decent BC into an excellent solo platform.
Hyperion: More PG. Needs 125 Mbit drone bandwidth and 150m3 Drone bay. This will allow the Hyperion to actually compete with the other 3rd tier BS's
Also..... All blaster boats need to be super fast but have low agility. This way they can get into range easily but also be out manoeuvred by Minmatar hulls which shouldn't be faster but should have much higher agility. We need to accept that Minnie shouldn't have the speed and agility to easily fly circles around everyone. Just the agility is enough with some clever piloting. |

Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3
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Posted - 2011.11.04 01:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:
Prophecy: Replace energy turret cap usage for a 10% per lvl optimal bonus This gives the Prophecy a far better role as Fire support rather than just a tank. Useful with Pulse or Beams without stepping on the Zealots toes.
Honestly no, it would still be a pretty sad ship but it could tickle at a longer range. The Harbinger is pretty bad off too. It has a crap bonus as well. Give it an Optimal Range Bonus instead of Laser Cap and Give the Prophecy a Damage Bonus and make it a serious brawler. With the Zealots Sig and Speed none of this will touch it's toes.
Harbinger is already in a good place and is a serious Brawler. Without Cap Bonus to turrets it would cap it's self out far too quickly with 7 guns. I stick with my original suggestion of turning the Prophecy into a fire support platform with an optimal range bonus instead of Cap.
Jane Idoka wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:Stuff I said u want fries with that?
Yes I do. But tell me why any of these fixes wouldn't work.
Eagle/Ferox would both perform exceptional as either a blaster or rail setup
Deimos gets its very heavy DPS at close range and the falloff bonus helps for sniper fits
etc etc
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Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5
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Posted - 2011.11.04 10:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Would increasing minimum warp to distance to 250km not be a major help to rails too? This would allow extreme range sniper fleets. Even if they're a bit fail on alpha |

Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5
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Posted - 2011.11.04 13:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
BooooooBeeeeeer wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:Would increasing minimum warp to distance to 250km not be a major help to rails too? This would allow extreme range sniper fleets. Even if they're a bit fail on alpha It will not. Now, the ship can be found in 10 seconds, with combatprobs. Warp, aproch, scram = you're dead.
But on grid warping won't work... you would have to leave grid or move out of 250km |

Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5
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Posted - 2011.11.04 13:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shmekla wrote:
Oh come on. Engagement at 25km? Then you turn and warp of. Orbiting faster? Does this was exactly when veb was 90%? Speed and no agility with shortest wepons? And then you will be outmanuvered even more badly than now.
Only by a good pilot in a minnie ship
Straight line speed means you can either try to charge at them or run away... a high agility ship will be able to fly circles around it only if the minnie pilot is good and the gallente pilot is bad.
Straight line speed is one of the keys to fix blaster boat hulls. Agility remains the area of Minnie ships. Remember, speed isn't everything if you can't turn quick enough.
Oh and engagement at 25km. overloaded points push out to 28km before we even think about faction points and skirmish links
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Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7
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Posted - 2011.11.04 15:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shmekla wrote: Wrong. Simple example.. taranis vs crusader. you must be very good pilot ant it is hard to approach target and stay in optimal range. and if you do not have agility you ease overshot. In other side crusader pilot has plentiful range so he not blathering himself with similar problems as taranis.
As blaster boats you must accelerate and desecrate fast, be agile because you have very small range for maneuvering. if galente will get more speed and no agility it would be boost for minmatar. Because then, flying minmatar I would dash toward galente and his speed will screw him because he wouldn't stop in time (turn around) and overshot.. And then he will be at low speed (scramed webed) with small optimal.. just target for practice.
In other hand if blaster boats would have great agility, it would leave much smaller range for maneuvering for minmatars.
Interceptors are a different kettle of fish but I totally disagree about agility vs speed. With agility, a faster ship with similar or (really) better agility (minmatar) will always always kite you. You can't do anything other than watch him fly around you at a speed you can only dream of. However, you hit the nail on the head with the line "I would dash toward galente and his speed will screw him because he wouldn't stop in time (turn around) and overshot". This is you using your agility to your advantage to out manoeuvre your target. If you get it wrong you're scrammed, webbed, and ******. Cause once you're in that <10km bracket you should die unless you're lucky.
Another thing about slow blaster blaster boats is that once you engage you're utterly committed. You don't have any means of escape other than spitting some ECM drones out and praying for the jam. A high speed low agility boat can point in a direction and try to burn away. You now have survivability too.
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Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7
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Posted - 2011.11.05 23:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hot Tubes wrote:This will be written with bullet points as there's several things to cover. And this is assuming you don't go down the path of making Minnie the optimal race (zero falloff) and gallente the falloff race, which is a good theory, as if minnie are fast enough to control range then make them ******* use it to constantly keep optimal or they lose all dps. And if gallente are slow as **** surely they need to be able to hit at a variety of ranges (with reduction in dps) more than ******* minnie. Anyway....
First: Bring other turrets down a bit to be not stupid OP.
# Scorch ammo needs range cut by 33-50%. Abaddons with no optimal range boneruses shouldn't be able to have 45km optimal with scorch and 10km falloff.
# All crystals should take 10 seconds to switch/reload. **** roleplay reasons, this is game balance reasoning.
# The bonus to falloff given by tracking enhancers should be substantially reduced from the current (T2 is 30% bonus. I don't know a decent value but let's just say cut by 50%). The current level of falloff reached with autocannons is ******* ridiculous.
# Base tracking on autocannons should AT MOST be 50% of the equivalent blaster. They usually fight at long ranges, meaning that while they move faster their relative speed to the target is lower and so tracking isn't as necessary. Plus all those tracking enhancers which are practically mandatory on minnie ships will boost tracking a little anyway. Blasters should be the best tracking of all turrets. Too many minnie pilot can keep range and pick off frigs with awesome tracking and then race up beside a target and brawl the **** out of it due to having good enough tracking to get right up beside them.
# INCREASE fitting requirements of projectiles to more closely match those of hybrids and lasers. An option people often ask for is to make it easier to fit the top tier of hybrids but, using blasters as an example, this completely makes elctrons and ions useless if neutrons can always be fit AND have prop mod AND have massive tank. There is good reason for the current trade off, and projectile weapons currently don't require this trade.
Hybrid/gallente buff
# Increase base top speed of gallente ships to be the highest of all. They should, with prop module, be able to scream in a straight line towards something and catch it. Keep agility as it is now. With good piloting they can still be avoided by minnie ships. Like in a bull fight, you don't run in a straight line away from the ******* bull, you run perpendicular to it as it can't turn as fast.
# Reduce the speed reduction incurred by using trimarks and armour plates.
# Reduce the capacitor requirement of firing hybrids. Reduce reload time to 5 seconds (to facilitate using Null on approach then when/if you snag someone a change to a close range ammo doesn't **** you over).
# For small blasters, increase base optimal range. It's slightly nuts to have an optimal of 500m roughly when you're piloting an interceptor which will refuse to orbit any closer than 1000m+ unless you practically stop the damn ship.
# Tracking boost to all blasters. Ballpark figure of 20%
# 5-10% dps boost, probably erring towards 5% due to the freak of nature known as the Vindicator.
Exactly my thoughts and what I have been trying to explain in this thread. You sir know exactly what needs to be done.
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